Wednesday, November 17, 2010

Re: [prohindu] Be proud being polytheist Hindu instead of monotheist non-Hindu

Saffron terrorism




Shri Ashok Chowgule Ji,

Saadar Namaste!

In future you may bring some more important points, which are being suppressed times and again.

First issue is blasphemy. 

Qaba is booty. Muslim Imaams have no shame for abusing non-Muslims' deities and faiths. More shocking is that non-Muslims do not apprehend the act as blasphemy. As such who is the culprit? Mind it! One who bears attrocities is more criminal than one who commits atrocities.

Have we ever called for jihad against ardent Muslims? Have we said anywhere that Muslims should recant their faith, pay jizyah (protection money), or they should be killed? Where is the imposition Muslims are talking about?  Muslims fail to see that Muhammad imposed his diabolic faith on others thorugh his numerous ghazwas (raids), that Muslims ancestors and mine were massacred, raped and forced into conversion, but Muslims see opposition against Azaan and mosque as an imposition? If a Muslim does not want our idols, why should we allow our Qaba remain with them? Can a Muslim who does not want to remain a Muslim relinquish his faith? What will happen to him if he does? (Koran 4:89) and (Koran 5;101 & 102). Where is the touted freedom of faith guaranteed in the Indian and American Constitution as well as 'Universal Declaration of Human Rights'? Can non-Muslims living in Islamic countries practice their faith freely? Have Muslims read about the recent violence against the Copts in Egypt? Have Muslims heard of innocent Muslims in Pakistan accused of blasphemy are lynched by Muslim goons as well as awarded death sentence for blasphemy by courts? 

Muslims want Kashmir. They got Pakistan. Should we not ask for our Qaba situated in Saudi Arabia? Should we not ask for share of land for those Muslims, who stayed back in India from Pakistan? If not why? Jews are already demanding their properties from Germany.

Muslims want back and were given as well land in Ayodhya to build Babri mosque. Should we not ask our temples illegally occupied by Muslims through out India? Delhi is capital of India. First, I demand demolition of Quwwatu'l Islam Maszid of Mehrauli and construction of those 27 temples from the debries of which the Quwwatu'l Islam Maszid was constructed.

If those worshipping other gods save Allah be killed, why those worshipping Allah alone be not killed? If those not accepting Jesus their king be killed, why those accepting Jesus their king be not killed? Muslims and Christians are at loggerhead. If raping women of alien faith is free from blame (Koran 23:6) for Muslims, then how can Muslims refute Christians who have been commanded to ravish the women of non-Christians before the eyes of the men of the victim women (Bible, Isaiah 13:16)? If those worshipping other Gods save Allah be killed is justified, (Koran 2:191) How can Muslims refute Christians, who have been commanded by Jesus to slay those, who do not accept Jesus their king? (Bible, Luke 19:27) If snatching the belongings of other person is offence, why the democrats, who snatched citizens' right to property are not dacoits? Where is the moral in that society that is owner of the belongings of the haves?

I have to say several more; but this time the above is enough.


Yours faithfully,
Ayodhya Prasad Tripathi, (Press Secretary)
Aryavrt Government
77 Khera Khurd, Delhi - 110 082
Phone: (+91) 9868324025/9838577815
Read my eBook 'Wary of Sonia on Web-site:
Christianity and Islam are criminal religions. They are not minorities. Instead we Vedic Panthies are minority among minorities. Protect us to salvage human races.
If you feel that this message be telecasted, donate us. Rush your contribution in the account of Manav Raksha Sangh Account No. 016001020168 ICICI Bank Ltd. Else keep ready for your doom. Remember! Whoever you are, you won't be able to save your properties, women, motherland, Vedic culture and even your infants. Choice is yours, whether you stick to dreaded usurper Democracy and get eradicated or survive with your rights upon your property, freedom of faith and life with dignity?



On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 12:04 AM, Dahyabhai Patel <> wrote:

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:17:55 +0000
To: Benjamin P N
From:  Benjamin P N
On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 15:18:35 +0530 "Ashok Chowgule" wrote

Dear Sir Mark,

Benjaminji has forwarded the transcript of your lecture in Begaluru, I  would like to offer my comments on the same.

Ashok Chowgule
I am going to make some points here not with an intention of nit-picking  but to take the discussion forward.
Before I do so, I would like state that I believe that there is no real  difference between what Sir Mark has said, and what we in the Sangh  Parivar believe. Hence I would like to respectfully disagree when he  says: ".my understanding of Hinduism is very different to the dogmatic  RSS school of Hinduism." I will leave this point here, since it needs a  different discussion. To a certain extent, I think if my other points  are viewed in the perspective that I hold, the discussion on the RSS  school of Hinduism can be better understood.
Another general point that needs to be highlighted that much of what Sir  Mark calls IINDIAN traditions is actually HINDU traditions. We should  not be afraid of saying this, because the term Indian includes  traditions other than Hindu, but all the attributes of the Indian  traditions that he has mentioned are found only in Hinduism. Like  trying to position Yoga outside of the Hindu tradition, discussion of  religious tolerance without reference to Hinduism is to ensure that the  origin is not given its due credit.
A third general point relates to what he has said towards the end of his  lecture, where he makes a plea that he should not be misunderstood that  he wants to convert the non-Hindus to Hinduism or that he is some sort  of defender of the RSS. Some eight years ago, he said in an interview  as follows: "I don't want it to sound as if my attacking secularists  implies that I am supporting the RSS."
The need to defend oneself in such a manner is a reflection on the way  discussions happen (not just in India, but in other parts of the world)  when it comes to Hinduism and its philosophy. There is a form of  intellectual terrorism (a term I use deliberately) that makes people  hesitate to say good things about Hinduism. Sir Mark is not the only  one to have been so attacked. But it is to his credit that he has stood  up to the attacks, unlike many others who have succumbed to the peer  pressure.
Coming to some specific points in the lecture. I have always believed  that in any religious dialogue, there is a need to understand that the  differences between the basic philosophies have to be laid on the table.  Because it is these differences that create tensions, which the dialogue  is supposed to try and reduce to a manageable level, if not eliminate.
We need to understand what is the essential difference between  monotheism and polytheism. Monotheism says that there is a single way  to salvation while polytheism says that there are multiple ways. The  effect of the monotheism on an individual can be quite profound. If his  friend is not of the same belief of salvation as he is, then he is bound  to come to the conclusion that his friend will go to that place where  one is eternally barbecued. So, he has a duty of friendship to try and  wean his friend from the path the friend has chosen, to prevent him from  suffering in the after-life. Thus, the act of conversion is no longer a  religious duty but a human duty.
A polytheist has no such problem, because eventually he knows that they  will reach the same ultimate goal, even though he believes that his  friend will take a circuitous route, and may have a longer period of  search.
In this case, it is really an issue of black-and-white. The use of the  term pluralism, etc., is really a side show, since one cannot really be  a monotheist as well as pluralist, while one can be polytheist and  pluralist at the same time. Thus, pluralism is really the equivalent of  polytheism. At the same time, it should be understood that the problem  of black-and-white does not exist when one discusses the issues in the  polytheist context. However, in this note I will use the word  pluralism, even where it is not interchangeable with polytheism, to make  the wording less cumbersome.
Sir Mark would like to contend that one can find elements of pluralism  within the new thinking in Christianity. Here too I would like to  respectfully disagree with him. One has to just read what the clerics  are saying to understand that the elements of pluralism hardly exists in  their thinking. While we can well admire people like Jacques Dupius, it  would be improper not to recognize that he has had problem with his own  church (namely the one based in Vatican) for the views that he has  expressed, and was suspended from his teaching post the Gregorian  University in Rome, around the turn of the century. So, we see what has  happened after the supposed winds of change brought about by the Second  Vatican Council of the early 1960s.
Nearer to India, there is the experience of Fr Tissa Balasuriya of Sri  Lanka, with respect to his book on Mary. In his case, he was  excommunicated, which was lifted only when Fr Tissa admitted to his  deviations from the officially recognized church teachings.
I do not think that the exclusivist thinking is restricted only to the  Vatican, but is part of all the important churches in the world. For  example, when Prince Charles wanted to change the oath of monarchy of  the UK to indicate that he was the defender of all the faiths, and not  just the Anglican variety, the hierarchy of the Church of England went  ballistic, and gave all sorts of warnings to the prince. One of them  said that if Prince Charles is saying that all religions are equal, then  he would like to 'profoundly disagree' with the prince.
There are some churches that do incorporate elements of pluralism in  their teachings. But then, while teaching the Bible, how does one deal  with so many verses that teach monotheism? If they say that these  verses have to be purged from the Bible, then the very authenticity of  the book comes in doubt. Sir Mark seems to be well aware of the  problems when he says: "Now for Christianity, there are of course,  difficulties in pluralism." He has pointed out that, in a pluralistic  context, there are difficulties of holding on to certain verses as  divinely revealed.
The move towards pluralism, and hence polytheism, has been noted by  various surveys that have been taken in the countries which are, at  least nominally, Christian. Significant number of people at large are  of the belief that there are multiple ways to salvation, and this number  is increasing. Also, more and more people are accepting reincarnation  as valid. This is despite the fact that in teaching Hinduism, the  aspect of multiple paths is touched upon only cursorily, while there is  much emphasis on aspects like caste.
Sir Mark is correct that a religious philosophy is impacted (I would  like to add the word seriously here) by the culture in which it evolves.  By the same token, a religion that has evolved in a particular culture  cannot be easily transposed into another. I would like to contend that  this is true only in case of a monotheist religion. A polytheist  religion can easily adapt to the new culture and the member of the new  home will feel quite comfortable with a member of the original home.  Thus, a person who accepts Hinduism as his faith, but was brought up in  eating a non-vegetarian diet, can well continue with his previous food  habits. A vegetarian Hindu may frown on his practice, but will not say  that he is not a true Hindu, since the same vegetarian frowns on a  non-vegetarian born in generations of a Hindu family.
Sir Mark says: "The other thing about religion I feel is important in  the context of pluralism is that it's always personal." This is  something that the Hindu sages and philosophers have been saying all the  time. Each person has to create his or her own personal experience to  move towards the path of salvation. While one may say that the path of  the other is not valid for oneself, one accepts that the path is valid  for the other. This is the true spirit of tolerance.
I would like to offer an expansion on his statement where he says: "It's  a historic fact that India has provided a home down the centuries for  almost every religion in the world." India has provided home to those  who came here due to religious persecution in their own homelands.  While the Jews and Parsis are the better known examples, because of  their unique experience of living with honour amongst the Hindus, there  is also the case of the Syrian Christians who fled their homeland due to  persecution by Christians belonging to another Christian sect.
At the same time, when Islam and Christianity came with the power of the  sword, the Hindus resisted as ferociously as they could. They lost  some, but held on to a large portion of the territory and the people, to  make Hinduism the oldest surviving civilization. Due to this  resistance, the power of the sword was not as successful as in other  cases. Yet, the attempt to destroy Hinduism continues - in supposedly  more subtle manner.
I would like to say that my remarks are not made with an intention of  dissuading the reader from seriously studying what Sir Mark has said. I  would, however, like to suggest to Sir Mark that there is a need to take  the issues to a logical conclusion. I have tried to suggest some  direction, but I will not say that it is the only direction. Sir Mark  has made a beginning.


Ashok Chowgule

Recent Activity:
One strong Hindu can change the thought-current of the whole world...
Hindus should have fearlessness,the first prerequisite of a spiritual life.

To Post a message, send it to:
To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:


No comments: